The Therapy Business Podcast

[REPLAY] Stand Out in Your Therapy Market with Ann Carden

• Craig Dacy • Episode 66

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Our top episode in 2025 was all about how therapists can move from generalist to go-to expert with a clear niche, strategic partnerships, and a hybrid visibility plan that drives premium private pay clients. 


Ann Carden explains the exact steps to position your practice, package outcomes, and scale without burning out.

Book a call with Ann Cardin:

Acarden.com 

annlcarden.com 



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To see if you might be a good fit, schedule a free consultation at therapybusinesspod.com


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*Intro/outro song credit:
King Around Here by Alex Grohl

SPEAKER_00:

Marketing your practice is hard enough already, but positioning yourself in a way where you are a sought-after expert is really challenging and something that honestly a lot of practice owners don't quite achieve. Well, today my guest Ann Carden, the author of Expert in You, is going to talk about how to position yourself in a way that people look to you for your experience and expertise, and they are drawn and attracted to you, whether it's through public speaking or through online presentations or podcasts or whatever you're doing to get yourself out there, making yourself the expert. My name is Craig, and I'm the owner of Daisy Financial Coaching. Our team is on a mission to make your therapy practice permanently profitable. If you own a solo or group practice, we're here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money, and serves more people. This is the Therapy Business Podcast. All right, and we are so glad to have you here on the show with us. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm doing great, Craig. Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm super excited for this one. I was um perusing your when we first got in contact, which I feel like has been a little while ago. Uh, I looked at your website and I got excited. And even just before this call, I was looking at your website again, got re-excited because I was like, okay, I'm gonna learn a lot today as well. But uh let the audience members know who are you? What is your business? What do you do?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, so I am a business consultant. I also do run a marketing agency, a media and marketing agency. My entire business is built around helping people really stand out in their market to be able to get more clients and build, get the best clients even, but really establish that authority and that expertise. And I like to say influence your markets. So all of the pieces that go with that is a is a big piece of what I do with people.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's such a need, I think, in every industry, but specifically in therapy practices, because I think uh a lot of times uh we talk about a lot on this show, but it's people go to grad school to become therapists and they end up working for somebody else. And at some point, like, you know, I think I can make more or have more freedom of time to do it myself, but no one ever taught them how to market themselves or how to run the business side. And so that is just an something we're always learning and always trying to hone in on. And so what you do is really, really helpful, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, create that market fame.

SPEAKER_00:

So yes. So let's tell me more about that. So, for somebody who's listening, what are some of the best ways to get yourself out there and establish yourself as an expert?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I one of the first things to do is really think about your positioning in the market. How are you different from your competition? What and if you are in business for yourself, you do have competitors, right? It doesn't matter what you're doing. Um, so how are you different from your competition? So, one way to really do this to separate yourself uh from everybody else would be to go more specialty or specialized. That might be one direction that you could go. Um, maybe that would be with kids only, maybe that would be weight loss, maybe that would be anxiety, or there's so many different ways that you could go. And there's no shortage of people in any of those areas. But when you establish yourself as an expert for that particular thing, now you can build referral partners. So that's one way to really build your business. You can write a book around that. You all of your marketing, everything that you're doing, you can go out and speak about it. All of that will help you build your market fame, so to speak, and and really become known in your market. And it's really not hard to do this in a local market. It is work, but it's not hard to do it. And I did it offline many, many years in many of my businesses before I ever did it online. It in fact, it's interesting. I still have people that recognize me from some of those old businesses because I had done that. I had built such a name for myself. And that's really what we're talking about. Building a name for yourself so that there's no doubt this is what you do, this is who you're for. That is the first step. That's like the foundation of your business.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So building a name for yourself, which uh, and as we are talking about that local, I think, you know, uh with therapists, they're I'm gonna say somewhat local. Just some of them may have licenses in a few states, but usually it's uh most of them are working just in the one state that they're licensed in. And so, yeah, that almost probably is a relief to hear because I think we are in this day and age, you just hear all these things like you know, podcasts, obviously, or have YouTubes or uh get on blogs and all these different things that are more national reach. And concerns I hear a lot of times are well, what if people come to me and I'm reaching out to people who I can't even work with because of that? So thinking on the local side, uh, where should somebody start? If somebody were come to you for the first time and be like, I'm trying to build a name for myself, what are some of the tips you give them for the best place to start?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and some of this is going to depend on who your market's going to be or how you're going to establish yourself in the market. So, for example, if you're going to target kids, TikTok might be the place, right? If you're going to target high-level professionals, LinkedIn might be your place. So it's really about understanding first who are you trying to reach and being very, very um very prominent on that platform. But then also, how can you now also get to them offline? So you it's the best model is a hybrid model where you're doing a lot online and you're doing a lot offline. But offline would be things like speaking, uh, building partnerships. You could be running events, you could be running small workshops or partnering with people and doing offline events. I did all of that for years. But you can also really build your business online as well, even if you're trying to do it local. In fact, it's easier to do it locally because you can run paid ads, you can have that podcast, that show, that YouTube channel. I always say you should have an expert platform, and that's usually going to include some sort of show or something that you're doing to really continue to build on your expertise and let people see what you're all about. So now people do vote online before they ever come and talk to somebody offline, unless even if you're referred, people still check you out. You really need a very strong online um brand and presence and expert platform. Um, so I would say both of those things are are places to start. Is that helpful?

SPEAKER_00:

That's so helpful, yeah. And that's good to hear that both, even locally online is still valuable. Because as you're saying, I'm like, that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, people are there.

SPEAKER_00:

They are there, yeah. And they're coming to see your content. And if you're gonna be leading, you know, if they're if they're looking for a therapist and they go to a website and there's videos of you talking and there's a podcast of you talking, you create that connection, and it's such a relationship-based engagement that forms them up. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's that's huge. And I guess reaching too many people is a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. And here's the other thing. So I I like to expand people's minds when when I'm talking because I help people build businesses. One of the things that you can do is you can partner with people. So if you're if you can only work with somebody locally, you still can partner with people in other states. And there's ways that you can still work together and build other revenue streams. There are other things you can do to build more revenue into your business versus just trading your time for money. And so I I love for people to think even bigger like what are other things that I can offer or who can I partner with? But not only that, when you establish yourself as an authority and an expert and you're influencing people even in your local market, you can also get paid more premium fees. You could attract even better patients if you call them patients, you could attract even better people to your business. Um, so all of those things build your revenue and they they start to build your business. But more than anything, you when you build that authority, uh, there's no question about you being the best. And so you think about that doing the heavy lifting for you. Now you don't have to, when you when people come to you, they're going to be ready. They're about 80 to 90 percent ready to work with you because they do feel like they know you, they already like you if they've seen you out there. You've just warmed them up to the point that when they are ready or they know someone that's ready, you're gonna be top of mind the first person they think of. And that's so easy to do in the marketplace today. In the old days we had to like run print ads and it was expensive. And now we have all these tools and opportunities that we can do that so organically and easy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, 100%. And as you're saying that, I'm thinking I'd heard it once said, uh, you know, like there's a reason that a surgeon makes a lot more than uh, you know, your general practitioner. That's because they are specialty, they specialize in uh this one thing, knees or whatever you're getting surgery on. So to specialize in something that's huge. I mean, obviously, I'm on a therapy business podcast. So we we coach all kinds of businesses, but we also specialize in therapy practices. So that really rings true. So as somebody's looking at getting out into their local, you were you alluded to doing workshops or partnering with local people. Um, what have you seen work? And I know maybe not even just specific to therapists, but with some of your clients or some things you've tried, what what works, what have you seen work, or how can maybe somebody get their foot in the door to do that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, that's really not hard to do when you're when you're going to run, say, a local workshop. So one of the easiest ways is to find out who else has got your people. So first you have to establish that foundation. What are you going to be known for? What are you going to be the expert and the authority for? Uh, I worked with a therapist and she was able to charge three times more than other people per hour because she worked with uh people that had eating disorders. Well, that's very special. And she partnered with other therapists that sent those people to her. So she didn't even have to do a lot of marketing. She was still was out there and she was visible, but she got so much business coming to her. Her biggest issue was how do I now grow this and expand my practice? Um, and so that's that's kind of what we're talking about. But if you're going to do, say, a local event, who is it you're trying to pull into the room to share expertise and really uh help them and give them value? And who would have those people? So here's an example. Um you're dealing with kids maybe that have some kind of an issue. Would it be coaches maybe that would have those kids? Would it be um people selling services to those kids that you could partner with? So thinking about who who has those people and how can how can you they help you kind of curate that audience or that those people in the room with you? So that's an easy way. And you can get, I mean, Chamber of Commerces have free rooms and restaurants. You can do things with restaurants. There's just so many ways to do that if you're going to do it offline. And then online you can do it as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Love it. So, like an online workshop or webinar where people can sign up and attend. Um, great. Yeah, and I think even sometimes the online uh for me personally, as I admit, some of these the fears that I think a lot of people have with these is like, what if no one shows up? Um the online, at least if no one shows up, no one knows. But yeah, there's just something uh about nobody showing up while you're there live and in person. But I think partnering with someone like you were saying really could probably help overcome that. And I never thought of that. I would anytime I thought of doing a live-in-person workshop, I was thinking, just me and I'll promote it and cross my fingers that some people show up to it. Uh so I think it's a great idea to partner with someone.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, strategic partnerships are great. In fact, I just ran a two-day online event uh about a month ago, and I partnered with someone, and she promoted it. And a lot of the people that were there were from her, from her email list and and from her. Um, it was a really high-level event. So, and the attendance was 95% show rate for both days. And so it's just how you're doing it, how you're putting the pieces together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's fantastic. That's super great. And uh going back to something you even talked about with uh partner with other therapists, which again is maybe something we overlook because I think it's easy to look at all of them as competition. But you're right, if we're specializing in different things, uh, that's a huge, huge area of opportunity of um not only setting yourself up as valuable to send somebody else, you know, I have a connection that I think would be really good for you, or vice versa, business coming in. And so is that a good place to start? Is because as people are like, oh, who should I talk to? Doctor, like who do I talk to? Maybe therapists. Other therapists is a great starting point for connection.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's a great way. Um, in fact, it my client that I'd worked with that was a therapist, she did partner with doctors, she partnered with um other therapists, they didn't want to deal with that. That wasn't something they did. And so because she specialized, she got a lot of business from other therapists and from other partners. And but you have to you have to do that because it here's the one thing if they feel like you're competition to them, they're not going to send you business, right? But if they feel like you are truly exceptional at something and you would do a better job than they would, um, they would recommend you all day long. And then you can, and this is probably going to vary state for state. Um, you might even be able to work out some sort of a a money exchange or some sort of a um revenue opportunity there where you're partnering. And again, that's going to be dependent on the state and what the regulations are. But in a lot of cases, for example, realtors can't do that a lot, but they can give gift cards and they can they can get around it, right? So there are ways that you can get a get around things if it's an important thing for you. But um, it's it's powerful to do that, and it really can help you build your business faster.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's that's great. And I think so even going back to what you said to start with, which was figuring out what you're gonna be known for. And then maybe from there it's seeking out other therapists who so let's say you're like, I'm gonna be known for uh trauma. Um, and so you're like, I don't not gonna really want to do marriage counseling or work with kids or any of those. And so that's a great place to start looking out is okay, who are those people that specialize in that who maybe don't want to do trauma? Or uh I also know there's different licenses that people carry. So if anyone listening has a specific license, maybe connecting with people who don't have that because you're gonna be they can start sending those people to you because you're maybe they can't or don't want to handle them. So there's a lot of opportunity there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_02:

You can even pick a ch a particular market. So uh let's say you're in a big city, for example, and there are you know hundreds of thousands of people or maybe millions of people, and you can even go deeper than just trauma. Maybe it would be trauma around child abuse, uh, maybe it would be trauma around, so you can go deeper and really specialize, and there's gonna be more than enough people than you could ever serve in most cases, but you'll get all that business because now you are the go-to person for that, right? And then you establish that in the market so everybody knows you're the go-to person for that. And again, it's easier to do that locally than it is um to do that on a global stage or on a global level, which is what I do in my business. So I can tell you it's easier to do it local because I did it. Um, but yeah, you you but even even globally, you can set yourself apart in the industry in or in your field that you're in.

SPEAKER_00:

Love it, love it, love it. Yes, I think that's locally. I could see that because there's less, just less people um to that could carry that same expertise. And honestly, very few people are actually showcasing themselves as industry experts on something. And most people are generalists, they're so desperately trying to get clients that they're trying to appeal to everyone, and that's um spreading them thin, that's making it to where they can't charge as much as they want to charge. Uh, so it sounds like what you're saying is by doing this, you might even not only are you gonna get more clients, but you're gonna be able to charge a lot more for what you're doing. Are you sick of the overwhelm that comes with managing the finances in your practice? What if you can have a clear picture of where your money's going, pay yourself what you truly deserve, and have a rock solid game plan to grow your practice without the financial stress? Well, that's exactly what our profit coaching program is designed to do. We specialize in helping practices like yours achieve financial clarity so that you can focus on what you do best, helping your clients and managing your team, while we help handle all that businessy stuff they didn't teach you in grad school. Our profit coaching program is enrolling new practices right now. We'll walk with you as you create a financially healthy and sustainable practice. To see if you might be a good fit, schedule a free consultation at therapybusinesspod.com.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yeah, and if you think about you had kind of mentioned uh a general practitioner, right? So if you think about a brain surgeon, um, a brain surgeon has this instant credibility, this trust, right? You wouldn't go shopping around for a brain surgeon. You would um you would just realize you would just believe that they knew what they were doing if they were a brain surgeon. But if your doctor retired, you just go find another doctor, right? So, and and you're only gonna pay them so much for that visit. And so that's really what we're talking about here. It's about really elevating your brand and elevating what you're so great at and what you do that would be completely different from other people in the market. And it really does make you the go-to. And people don't question the pricing or the money when you are specialized, when you are the brain surgeon. They you wouldn't go price shopping for a brain surgeon. You just right, and so it it's the same thing, and it that might sound like a silly um comparison, but it really truly is the same thing when they believe you're the only person, the go-to, they're going to uh, you know, they're gonna pay for that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and a lot of our therapists are some of them want to take insurance, but I would say majority are feel stuck taking insurance and they want to switch over to private pay where they can dictate their rates. Um, there's a lot of fears and stigmas around it, uh fears of leads dropping out, but also just value and will people pay what I'm asking? Um, and so it sounds like having that specialty can really, really help bridge that because even the people who maybe they have insurance like, no, I want to hire you because you are the industry expert on this, and it's worth the extra money in my pocket to get it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and here's another way to look at it. And I don't really know what therapy rates are and things like that, but here's a way that you can think of It if you're charging, let's say$300 an hour, okay, and or you're selling a package. Maybe if you're if you're selling something and you know that they're going to need this many sessions and you're selling it almost like a package, um, but let's just say you're charging$300 an hour, and you know, three people would be a thousand dollars, or you could work with ten people at a hundred dollars. I mean, which is not going to grow, right? Because you're gonna max out, you're going to tap out. And so that that's really what we're talking about. So just because you don't take everyone doesn't mean that your business can't grow because you you're gonna max out at some point anyway. Um, and so if you think about that, it's a lot less work. It's it doesn't mean you can't take on other people if you want to do that, or maybe you can offer um some sort of a scholarship programming or something, you can offer some sort of help to certain people, but for the most part, you're still one person. So it's what what do you want to make from that practice? You're building a business if you and there's overhead and there's things that you have to pay for in that business. So you can't think about yourself like an hourly employee. It doesn't work in a business. You have to be able to, I always say you need to be able to make three times what you would as an employee just to make the same amount of money. But here's where the difference is the opportunity is bigger. You have all these different ways that you now can make money and different uh different ideas and revenue streams that you can add in where you don't have that when you're an employee. So that you know, that's the difference in having a business if you are treating it that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. There's so much opportunity there, but you're right. It's um as a therapist who's working for another practice, your scalability is only so much, but when you own your own business, you got to find a way to uh really stretch out because at some point your capacity is gonna get so thin that you're like, I have other stuff to do besides just meeting with clients. I have marketing and I have to run the business, do the finances. And uh so yeah, the the less people I'm seeing, I need to kind of almost get as as tacky as it sounds in this circumstance, more bang for my buck on each of these clients. Um, just you need to get more premium clients and pass off the ones who maybe, if they need insurance, you know, there's other therapists that you can refer to. Um, I think that's that could be the other referral partner piece of it.

SPEAKER_02:

But it is hard to do this if you don't do the other things we've talked about. If you're not the specialist, if you haven't, you you really don't stand out in your market. It it's really hard to do that. It's hard to justify the prices, it's hard to justify the increase. So those it's not just one piece, oh, raise your prices, right? It's all of these things that build a more powerful, robust practice. And and by the way, that client that I was talking about, I mean, she's expanded, she's put in massage therapy and she's put in all these other revenue streams, but because she was making the money in her practice, she had the funds and she was able to do a lot of other things. And that's really what we're talking about. So the opportunity is bigger to make more money. If you're only thinking about it like a job, why not just work for someone? I mean, why the opportun, you know, the whole reason people want to be in business is the opportunity to make more money, better their life, um, be able to set their hours, all of those things. And but if you're not building in the right way, none of those things are gonna happen, you're gonna have more headache for less.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, completely, completely agree. So establishing your area of expertise, um, then starting to leverage that. So we talked about getting, you know, with other network partners or referral partners and uh making that yourself known in that realm. I assume uh updating your website and making sure that it's targeted to that specific um, yes. So when somebody is like we talked about, maybe it's childhood trauma is what you're um focusing on. And so that's what the messaging on your website is speaking to. When somebody's ready to get themselves out there and do public speaking, I know we talked about doing like workshops. Well, do you do you work with clients a lot, or I assume you recommend, but getting like maybe speaking at conferences or speaking at other things that people have.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, all that. Yes. I say step into the expert spotlight, speak, sell, and scale. So that's sort of um, yeah. So when you're out there, uh going, you know, getting uh in front of the right audience speaking at conferences can be huge. Uh let's say you want to um do mental health or mental wellness in a corporate environment. You need you're gonna have to get out there and speak, right? You're going to have to be seen and heard. Um, so it really all of this is part of a marketing strategy that's going to fit what you're trying to accomplish. And there's no one size fits all here. Uh when I work with my clients, we figure out what's going to be the best path for them. And so they're not just out there trying to do all this stuff and making themselves crazy. That's not the right way. You need a great strategy behind what you're doing. But yes, absolutely. Speaking, getting on stages, but you have to be in front of the people that you could either partner with and they could refer business to you, or people that um are, you know, potential patients or or clients, whatever you want to call them.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, that's great to know. That's a good point because I don't know. They could be out there, but I was like, I don't know how many uh people go to conferences just for um uh trauma or whatever it is they're they're doing, but you know, maybe it's the referral you're going to um conferences where you're right, other network partners that maybe you can work with that you can connect with. Um awesome. And so I think it's great. You're talking about all these ideas, but you like you said, there's got to be a strategy behind it because I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. Um, so when somebody comes to you to work with you, uh, what does that look like? Tell me about how you help clients kind of create that strategy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the first thing we want to do is figure out what do you want this business to be for you? How much money do you want to make? Um, you know, so I I like to help people make a million-dollar leap. How can you make a million-dollar leap? And so that's going to come down to first uh your offer creation, like what are the packages or the offers that you have put together that you're selling? How are you going to be established in the market? What is that positioning? How are you gonna be different from your competition? So we look at all those foundational pieces and we do all of that before we start marketing because you can't market with the right strategy until those basic things get in place. What are you selling? Are your packages going to get you to the money that you want? Uh, for example, I mentioned the, you know, if you want to make a thousand dollars working with 10 people, okay, how many, what is your capacity? We have to look at that, right? And so what would be this the model of your business that could get you to the revenue that you want? So all of that has to happen first and and getting really dialed in on that specialty and what that looks like. Then I help people put really what I call the the influence strategy in place and the visibility strategy in place. Okay, you need to do what I call as high impact marketing. And I already mentioned it. Write a book, do a show, be out there, be visible, speak on stages, run workshops virtually, offline, all of that starts building out your visibility and it also raises your authority and establishes you in the market as the go-to and as the expert for what it is you do. So that becomes then the next piece. And then obviously you have to be able to close sales, and then what do you do beyond that? How can you grow that thing beyond you? What are the ways that you can continue so that you have a real business and not just a job for yourself? So many people create a job for themselves, but they don't. But you're in business. If you if you're in business, you've got opportunity to build your wealth and impact more people. And so you want to the first thing is you really want to just expand your mind to what is possible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's amazing. And I know a lot of people that resonates. Um, I know that firsthand with some of my clients who've who've really been struggling to get themselves out there as experts and industry experts and um finding these opportunities. And so I know there's got to be people listening who are hearing this is what I am looking for. I need help because I feel overwhelmed with it all. So, how can somebody get in contact with you if they're saying, you know, I want, I want, I want her to help me do all this?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So you can uh book a call with me at acarton.com and you can also follow me on social. I have a big YouTube channel, but you can go to my website at annlcarton.com if you want to just check things out and um just learn a little bit more. But yeah, book a call if you're interested in doing that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I recommend everyone does. Um I think that's a great, great, it's so important. And I think that's probably something a lot of people are lacking. And so we'll put all those links in the show notes below. Um and it's I've learned I took a whole page of notes here. I learned a lot already for myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

I hope I know a lot of people listening are gonna take away a lot. And so uh I'm grateful for you. And um also we'll put a link to uh your books out there as well, right? So we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, yeah, and I actually have a new one coming out probably this week. It's gonna be called Be the One They Choose. And it's going to go into a lot of these, it's it's the new uh rules for standing out and winning the business. So it's going to go into a lot of these things that I already talk about.

SPEAKER_00:

Fantastic. I'll link uh I'll link those in the show notes as well so that people can find those and read those as well. But um, thank you so much for being here. I've learned a lot and I'm just grateful for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on the Therapy Business Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a practice owner that you may know. If your practice needs help getting organized with finances or just growing your practice, head to therapybusinesspod dot com to learn how we can help you.

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Craig Dacy

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