The Therapy Business Podcast
We know how challenging growing a therapy practice can be, and don’t think it should require an accounting degree just to run your business. If you own a solo or a group practice, we’re here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money and serves more people.
The Therapy Business Podcast
Ethical Marketing For Your Therapy Practice with Karyn Mitchell
Ever wondered how therapists can market their services ethically without compromising their professional integrity? Join us as we sit down with Karyn Mitchell, a graphic designer and brand strategist with a unique focus on therapy practices.
Karyn shares her extensive journey from working in a therapy office to becoming an expert in helping therapists market themselves authentically. She provides valuable insights into overcoming the fear of crossing boundaries and appearing too salesy, and explains how aligning your branding with your true personality can attract the right clients.
This episode is essential listening for any therapist looking to market themselves ethically and navigate the complexities of expanding their practice.
Website: https://wllwwsp.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wllwwsp/
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*Intro/outro song credit:
King Around Here by Alex Grohl
A lot of therapists worry about ethics when it comes to marketing their practice, and it makes sense. You're trying to put yourself out there, you're trying to make a connection, showcase your personality, but then there's also this line you're trying to walk between what you can and can't say, and a lot of times, fear can come in and we don't want to do anything out of fear of doing the wrong thing. Well, today, karen Mitchell, who is an expert in working with therapy practices on their branding and their marketing, joins us to tell us how you can market your practice ethically. My name is Craig and I'm the CEO of Desi Financial Coaching. Our goal is simple to help you run a therapy practice that is permanently profitable. If you own a solo or group practice, we're here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money and serves more people. This is the Therapy Business Podcast. All right, y'all, we got Karen Mitchell here with Willow Wisps. She's a marketing genius when it comes to therapists. Karen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great Thanks. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm so good. I'm so good. Thanks for hopping on here, because I think what we're going to talk about today is something that a lot of our therapy clients are concerned about, and that's not only marketing themselves. It's marketing themselves. They're afraid they're going to cross a boundary or they're going to be unethical or be kind of salesy or icky, and you just have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this, of overcoming that, knowing where those boundaries are. Is that right? That's kind of your wheelhouse, especially because you specialize in therapists too. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah. So I'm a graphic designer and a brand strategist, but I only work with therapists.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So what led you to working primarily with therapists? Tell us your business story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have been a graphic designer for about eight years now.
Speaker 2:I got a job maybe two or three years ago working as the front desk for a therapy office, and I'm also in college pursuing a psychology degree for therapy, so that kind of helped a little bit. But my job with working for the therapy office, I did kind of everything. I did all of the marketing for them. I um matched clients with therapists, um, you know, I, I, I, I scheduled them and everything. So, um, really, I kind of got into the nitty gritty of all of this stuff that therapists don't really want to be doing, um, and I kind of got the hang of that as my specialty. And so when I moved into working for myself, therapists just felt like the natural choice because I'm so passionate about the topic anyway, and then I have that expertise with, you know, working, doing all the odd jobs that a therapist you know wants, who wants to focus on their clients, would rather not do. So I think marketing specifically is what caught my eye, because it's such a thing that therapists don't want to do Right.
Speaker 1:Yes, completely. Yeah, they seem to avoid it. Um, it's, yeah, wondering where to spend your time, wondering if anyone's watching, wondering what the people are judging. Uh, is what I've heard. What are some like when, when you have a therapist come to you for the first time? What are their biggest issues or complaints or frustrations that they bring to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, marketing is a big one. A lot of the times they feel like they're not connected with their brand. Because I'm a graphic designer and a brand strategist, I mainly focus on brand redesigns and things like that. So my job is to kind of take the person that I'm working with and put that person into their brand. So it's kind of realigning the person with the type of person that they put online. Basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my gosh. So I might need to do an audit of my brand too, because I remember when I first started doing this, I went out into this field behind our house with my wife to take headshots and I was wearing a tie because I wanted to be presented as a financial coach and I wanted to look super professional and I had these muted colors. And then after a while I was like I don't wear ties, I wear T-shirts and hoodies. I was like why am I? It had zero to do with me. You could not go to our website and see our personality. So is that kind of? What you're looking for is just everything about your brand the colors, the images, the every, the copy. I'm sure all that has to be directed toward getting to know the personality. Is that kind of the end goal?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, I like to think of it as like taking your like beige personality Cause I feel like beige is a very big therapist color. I don't know why it's always beiges and like light pinks and earth tones, and not every therapist is like a beige, earth tone type of person. You know, like my branding, for instance, is like bright pinks and purples, and I think that's going to stay that way, even if I do become a therapist, just because that's who I am as a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's you're going to draw in the people who also resonate with that, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so many times because I always look at if we're going to do a consultation with a practice. I go to their website and get a little familiar with them before the call. And you're right, there's the vibe I get from some websites. It's like, all right, this person's very buttoned up or going to be super there. The way they write on their website sounds very clean, cut and professional.
Speaker 1:And then we get on a call and they're just super warm and bubbly and their personality shines. And you're right, there's. There's like this disconnect. Sometimes that can happen, and how important is it with therapists to convey themselves? I mean, this is a pretty relational industry, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Right, I mean my. I always think about, like, when I look for a therapist, right, I read somewhere that a person who's looking for a therapist ends up with five to seven therapists that they're between, and the way that they choose the therapist is they go through each website and pick from there, and then they have consultations. Now I'm the person who probably has 12 or 15 or 16 profiles that I'm pulled up and I'm combing through everything, but I'm also, I'm just like that as a person. So it it really comes like your website is your, it's your front door, you know it's, it's the, it's the way that people relate to you and it's so important in marketing for especially in therapy, for your clients to feel like, seen and safe, and if your website isn't giving them seen and safe, then it's you're not finding the people that you really need to be finding in order to do good work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I think that's so, so true, and I'm the opposite when it comes to searching for a therapist, but I think it still resonates truth. I get overwhelmed incredibly easy with that stuff because I don't know what I'm looking for. And so when I found my therapist really I think I've done two calls with people One person ended up not being licensed in Texas. I couldn't work with them anyway. And then this guy and the way I found him is he had a podcast and I listened to him and was able to get to know his personality, his website branding really aligned with his personality, and that's what I was like. Okay, I'm just going to go with this guy because I feel like if you're buttoned up and professional and if that's, I guess, maybe your personality, maybe that's not bad but right, that's what everyone's trying to be, it seems like. It seems like every therapist website or psychology today profile is very just professional and and buttoned up and kind of not loose and fun right, exactly, and I'm the same way.
Speaker 2:I ended up finding a therapist who was not that at all and we have a great relationship, you know. But it comes down to like I think I found her because she had a video on her psychology today, which has been amazing, by the way. Put a video on your psychology today, if you don't, um, because you can really show who you are through video, um, and I think that's why video is becoming king as well in marketing, which is a whole other topic. Um, but know, put a video on your psychology today and just show exactly who you are, exactly what your modalities are, how you interact with people, and that will get people in the door, people who you actually want to work with 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been doing video since day one. Just, I mean, I've always enjoyed video and the number of people who get on calls and because they see my background and they've seen me on videos, they it's almost like they feel like they've been in this room with me and it takes down that barrier. They feel like there's a little bit of we know each other a little bit already, which I think in therapy is probably important that you break down that stress and anxiety behind.
Speaker 1:What is this person going to say? What are they going to be like? Am I going to have to be super vulnerable? What's it going? To be like so that video is important and I want to stand on it a little bit because I think that's such a great tip with your Psychology Today profile Any suggestions on how to really make that video shine or anything that you know that could be like a red flag or thing to stay away from? What do you recommend when somebody's doing that?
Speaker 2:So when I see psychology today videos, the ones that do not sell me on the person are the ones where you can tell that they're reading from a script, like right next to the camera, and they're like hi, my name is this and these are my modalities, and this is like you're just giving me a laundry list of who you are. I'm not getting anything from that. I need to know, like are you funny? Are you a dog person? I had one client who had their dogs in their psychology today video and they were like I love animals and I'm like that's good, do that? It's just. It's so important to show that you're a human being and not like a person who got out of grad school and is reading a list of information about yourself. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I've seen those too. I've seen the ones too where they don't even edit it. You'll see the video start and they're like hi, am I? Hi, my name is like oh no, they didn't even watch it again. They're probably so terrified to see themselves on camera they didn't even go back to watch it. So, totally important, very important, yeah, when in marketing ourselves. I want to kind of circle back to that ethical side. We've heard, I've had concerns from people when I'm talking to our clients about marketing yourselves and they're going Okay, but is it okay for me to give tips? Is it okay for me to? I mean even things like testimonials? I'm worried about that compliance of client confidentiality. How do you dance around those lines or how do you know where those lines really are so that therapists can market themselves confidently?
Speaker 2:It's hard. I find myself looking stuff up a lot to like see what the laws are and everything, and I've found like I've even had therapists in the past who they don't solicit testimonials from me. I think the best way, as far as testimonials go, to do it is to just add it into like an email that you're sending out to everybody. If you're doing like a, like a yearly update, like hey, everybody, we're raising our prices, this is what's happening in the practice. And, by the way, if you wanted to do a testimonial, here's a link to do that. If you want to. I think that's a great way to do it, because you're not asking anyone directly. It doesn't feel like you're being put on the spot as the client. That seems like the best way in my mind to do it. Or to have a spot on your website where you can just go put one in without having to be asked to do it. Those two, I think, are the the biggest ways that I've seen testimonials get done, but I would need to look into the laws more to see if there's any other way to do it without, without you know, breaking the law, I guess.
Speaker 1:Completely yeah, and I'm sure it's different, you know, for each state and there's probably great areas I know for us and again, I don't know the ethical boundary around it we have for our clients. We do quarterly just review to reviews. We want to know what we're doing well what they want to focus on what? And at the bottom there's a checkbox saying can we use your answer for testimonials? Are you comfortable with that?
Speaker 1:And they can check, yes or no. Again, I'm not sure how that well that translates into therapy world, because we don't have a lot of regulations around what we do. So I think it's important to be careful of that for sure.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, awesome. And then what about like tips? So if somebody's going out cause I know there's this, this thing of you know providing therapy, if somebody in Arizona watches it and you're only licensed to in Texas, is that crossing a boundary at all? If they're going giving tips online, is that different? What do you usually suggest or what do you see people do when they're marketing themselves online and giving out therapy tips, or just tips in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the. It comes down to nuance in my mind. I think that I think that there is a very big group of people on Instagram specifically and TikTok and social media in general, who just love putting out therapy tips. But then you get the pop psychology thing of like people thinking that they have bipolar disorder because they read this thing on.
Speaker 2:Instagram, you know. So my biggest thing is like, if you're going to give therapy tips, you have to add some kind of nuance. Thing is like, if you're going to give therapy tips, you have to add some kind of nuance. Um, and you don't necessarily have to give therapy tips in order to market yourself as a therapist. You know, we hear a lot about, like giving value on social media. I'm of the belief that you don't necessarily even need social media to market yourself. Um, I'd like to think that most people can do it by word of mouth, which sounds kind of old fashioned, I think. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of getting most of their clients from word of mouth because it feels so like 1990s. But I think your best clients are going to come from word of mouth, ultimately, the ones that stick around the longest, the ones that pay the most, because they're going to have referrals, basically from other people who who vouch for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those are going to be easier ones to turn into clients when you get on those sales calls, because that trust factor is already already there, the barriers already broken down, and I mean even going back to what you're saying about your brand and reflecting personality. I would even imagine an Instagram profile could purely be. I'm just going to showcase our personality on here and if you're a solo therapist.
Speaker 1:It's, you know it could. It could have nothing to do with therapy, probably. It's just here's kind of what we're doing. And I've seen, you know again, my therapist has a podcast and a lot of times they get on with it's three therapists together just having a conversation around ideas. So it's not giving out here's what you should do or diagnosing, it's just what do we think about this? What do we know are common struggles around this? What do we know are common solutions and kind of just speaking around it. And I would guess that's a way to do it too, that you can provide that value or have somebody almost sit in and listen and see, okay, yeah, that's that resonates with me, or that's helpful to me, or however it is.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah. In fact, one of my favorite podcasts is called um things you can't say as a therapist. I think it's called Um and all she does is talk to other therapists about things that are not necessarily kosher to say in therapy. Um, and her whole brand is built around, kind of disrupting the normal sort of uh idea of a therapist in your head, and I think that that is such a good way to build a body of work that attracts clients that are aligned with you. You know what I mean? Um, and just that. And it goes back to being yourself, like she is 100% herself in her podcast and on her website and everything. Everything is so unique and specific to her that you can't help but be attracted to it as a client who is in alignment with with those values.
Speaker 1:That's great. That's great. So, with branding yourself on your website, let's kind of go back to your bread and butter. When somebody hires you and they're working with you and you help them rebrand, where do people start? So if they're, I mean they may have no idea. They're looking at their site right now and you're like I don't know what are some of your top recommendations. If you're to see a potential client's website, what are some things you that jump out, usually consistently, that you help people with?
Speaker 2:Um, well, a big one is the logo, which is I mean, that's my bread and butter, really is is logo design. But, um, I see a lot of like Canva logos where people are like, oh yeah, I just hopped on Canva and I created this logo and it's totally free and I can use it and I'm like that's good, but it's like a tree, like a hands, hands holding a tree, or like rocks stacked or like like you see those everywhere a Lotus flower.
Speaker 1:You know I hate to call people out, so if that's your logo, I'm sorry, but you know sometimes we need to be called out. It's a if it's if it stings a little bit. That means that you have opportunity for more clients and to really resonate more for more clients and to really resonate more Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's the logo is the biggest thing for me, because if you have a logo that you're putting everywhere, you want it to be like reflective of yourself, right? I usually recommend people use their faces as their logos, not necessarily like a drawn picture of their face, but like if you have an Instagram or a tick tock or whatever, use your face and not the logo as your as your like header picture. And then if you want to put the logo in like a banner or something, that's totally fine. But being personal and like putting yourself out there and showing yourself and being who you actually are are like the biggest, biggest things. You know video on psychology today, using your face as a logo on social media.
Speaker 2:And then, besides that, as far as websites go, I see a lot of people not having like an inquire now button weirdly, like that is such a big. You have to make it as easy as possible for a person on your website to inquire with you. Like as easy as possible. I put it in my banner on my website, so it's on every page, no matter what. But some people put it like in the in the footer of their website, which is nobody's going to look in your footer or like at the bottom of just like one page, and you, you have to put it everywhere, I mean literally everywhere. If somebody can't find that link, then they're not going to inquire with you.
Speaker 1:Completely. Yeah, that's. That's such a great point, and you know, with therapists. I usually, and we this is what we do too, but I'm going if you're, if you're trying to get clients, which majority of people who are listening to this, that's what they're trying to do. I say if you can even get them to go straight to your calendar, because I'll see contact forms a lot of times.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know somebody, late at night maybe, is stressed out and they're struggling, and so they submit that form and then you get back to them a day or two later that pain points not there in the likelihood that they're going to schedule. Maybe it's going you're. Then you're going okay, what days are you available? And so it's back and forth, versus they're stressed out, they're feeling that pain point, they click and then there's your calendar and they can book something right away. I think it's such a huge thing that's going to help move that. But you're right, you got to plaster it everywhere Because, yeah, if they have to search for it, they're not going to search for it, right?
Speaker 2:exactly.
Speaker 1:Keep it at the top. They may be ready to. They don't even care about reading anything else, they may just be, like if they're like me and they get overwhelmed with that research side I just want to click that button and jump on a call and find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, this is such a wealth of information. Talk to me a little bit about more, about what you do, how people can get in touch with you, who do you best serve? Who should reach out to you for some more support in this area, if they're listening and going? I need to rebrand, I need help with my marketing. All this stuff yeah, tell us about it.
Speaker 2:So I work with therapists obviously exclusively therapists mental health providers, spiritual healers, anyone in sort of that range I'm down for I'm myself I'm a queer graphic designer, so if that's something that's important to you, that's me. And then, in order to contact me, my website is willowispcom, so that's W L L W W SPcom. And then I also have an Instagram handle of the same name and you can see some of my work there as well. But yeah, if, if you're looking for, I do graphic design, I do, you know, logo, brand redesign, I do research marketing. So if you're not sure what your ideal client is or you're feeling kind of iffy about your current niche, I do that as well. I help you, kind of coach you through that and pretty much like I'm down to answer really any kind of like marketing questions for a therapist. Really, you can shoot me a DM on Instagram and I'm down for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great to hear that's who you specialize in and we'll put your links in all the show notes and everything. But you know, therapy is such a every, every industry is unique, but we say this all the time on here. It's such a relationship based thing that marketing is a lot of times different.
Speaker 1:It's not as simple as a website that's selling you a desk where it's information. We need to make a connection as best as we can Right. And I also see and maybe you see this a lot too as people transition from solo therapist to group practice, that's a rebrand in of itself, I mean yes, for sure.
Speaker 1:I went through that a couple of years ago when I was just me for this and it was Craig Dacey, financial coaching, and then I brought on a team and I was like, well, I don't know that, I want to keep having their name at Craig.
Speaker 1:Dacey, that was like it feels a little weird. Uh, so it's like I need to rebrand as we're pivoting that rebrand. I have a Canva logo, unfortunately, so you've resonated with me. I was like, until we pinpointed our name and everything, I was like, well, let's be our placeholder. So I need a new logo. So maybe we'll talk, but all I have to say I think that transition is such a pivotal point. So if anyone's listening and you're thinking of of moving to a group practice at some point in the near future, or you've already moved and you're going, I want to take my name off of this, or I think it's time that we change everything from a me to we.
Speaker 1:Um, that sounds like that's something that would be your wheelhouse. Totally A hundred percent, yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much for letting us pick your brain and this has been super helpful. And y'all go reach out, get some help with your branding, your marketing. You won't regret it.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on the therapy business podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with a practice owner that you may know. If your practice needs help getting organized with its finances or just growing your practice, head to therapybusinesspodcom to learn how we can help.
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